The way the global economy is, a collapse of the Greek government could act as a catalyst to something far larger. The PM, Papandreou, is facing a vote of no confidence tomorrow; if he loses that then he will have to resign and a general election will take place.
And that, considering the current situation in Greece, is basically just another way of saying that 'there will be complete and utter fucking chaos.'
German troops storm Greece. Putin's tanks crush Latvia. France humbles the British Army. Unlikely, yes, but as Angela Merkel says euro meltdown could endanger peace, a historian's imagination runs riot...
The date is October 29, 2018, and Britain faces its darkest hour. On the battlefields of Europe, our Armed Forces have been humiliated.
In makeshift prison camps on the continent, thousands of our young men and women sit forlornly, testament to the collapse of our ambitions.
From the killing grounds of Belgium to the scarred streets of Athens, a continent continues to bleed. And, in the east, the Russian bear inexorably tightens its grip, an old empire rising from the wreckage of the European dream.
Yesterday, after a run of military defeats unequalled in our history, the Prime Minister offered his resignation. There is talk of a National Government, but no one has any illusions of another Churchill waiting in the wings.
In suburban streets across Britain, old men and callow teenagers are digging defensive positions in the cold autumn air. But with equipment scarce and ammunition non-existent, the Home Guard would barely last a week.
And all the time, across the Channel, enemy forces make their final preparations for the inevitable invasion. Some talk of surrender; no one speaks of victory. Less than ten years ago, millions still believed in a peaceful, united Europe. How did it come to this?
When future historians look back on our humiliation, they will surely judge that the turning point was the last week in October 2011.
Largely forgotten today, the main event was yet another interminable European summit in Brussels — the 14th attempt to ‘save the euro’ in just 20 months.
Hoping to secure German support for a massive one trillion euro rescue package, Chancellor Angela Merkel gave her parliamentarians a chillingly prescient warning.
‘No one should believe that another half century of peace in Europe is a given — it’s not,’ she said.
‘So I say again: if the euro collapses, Europe collapses. That can’t happen.’
At the time, many observers scoffed that she was being absurdly melodramatic. But, seven years on, no one is laughing.
What Mrs Merkel had grasped — and what many European leaders refused to recognise — was that the Continent was threatened by a toxic combination of spiralling debt, economic recession, surging anarchism and a pervasive collapse of confidence in capitalism itself.
....
In the summer of 2012, massive anti-capitalist demonstrations in major Italian cities turned into outright rebellion. And when Berlusconi sent in the army to maintain order, the first bombs began exploding in the banks of Rome, Milan and Turin.
Anti-capitalism had caught the imagination of a generation. And the bomb alert at the Bank of England —when the entire City had to be evacuated after warnings from the so-called ‘Guy Fawkes Anti-Cuts Collective’ — was merely the first of many.
In July 2012, three people were killed by a bank bomb in Frankfurt. A month later, 15 people were killed in Dublin. And in September, in tragic events that will never be forgotten, 36 people were killed by explosions across the City of London.
By now demonstrations and riots were fixtures on the evening news. And as Germany and France struggled to keep the eurozone alive, there were the first signs of a disturbing new authoritarianism.
In Italy, where the Berlusconi government had declared a permanent state of emergency, some cities had degenerated into virtual civil war.
...
At another time, the terrible Spanish riots in the spring of 2014, when 63 people were killed in a shocking outbreak of arson and looting, would have dominated the headlines.
But most people’s attention was focused further east. No country had been hit harder by the financial crisis than little Latvia, which by 2014 had an unemployment rate of more than 35??per cent. And with almost one in three of its citizens being ethnic Russians, economic frustration soon turned into nationalist confrontation.
On August 12, 2015, after days of fighting on the streets of Riga, the Russian army rumbled across the border. The Russians had come to ‘restore order’, Vladimir Putin assured the world.
But his statement to the Russian people told a different story.
‘Europe’s crisis is Russia’s opportunity,’ Putin announced. ‘The days of humiliation are over; our empire will be restored.’
Once, the West would have come to Latvia’s aid. It was, after all, a member of both the European Union and of Nato — though the new American isolationism meant that Nato membership was effectively worthless.
But since French troops were already committed to Greece and Italy, Paris refused to intervene.
that guy is a fag, who can barely speak greek and has made some bullshits and now the greek nation suffers the consequences. To be honest I dont think greece is gonna escape the crisis ever, we are more vulnerable than ever right now as nothing is going well inside the borders of our country. I am gonna study abroad so I dont give a shit, its hopeless.
This is not the masses' fault. Actually it is cause they voted in favor of this governmet. But some1 else made the mistakes
Ok, so here's a very brief 'Greek economic crisis 101' for those of you who don't seem to be quite clued up on what's been going on:
01. Greek economy isn't very strong or productive
02. Greece needs money
03. Greece borrows money
04. Greece spends money
05. Greece starts repaying money
06. Greek economy is still weak
07. Greece struggles to keep up with payments
08. Payments changed - Greece only repays the interest of the original loan
09. Interest on government loans is very high
10. Greece struggles to keep up with payments again
11. Greece borrows money to be able to continue paying the interest
12. Meanwhile of course, the total sum borrowed increases
Repeat stages 11 and 12 a few times and that's basically where we are now.
The only reason Greece hasn't already exploded into a massive economic clusterfuck is because the EU is pumping money into it. This, in itself, seems ridiculous as the money is only paying off the interest of Greek borrowing; the full amount of the loan, roughly 1.5x the GDP of Greece, still exists and is still to be repaid.
What should we look at critical sense? Greece is bankrupt because their leaders are faggots and when anything serious to end the constant borrowing of money the workers go to strike. SERIOUSLY WTF? HOW CAN YOU STRIKE IF YOUR COUNTRY IS GOING BANKRUPT. Dont think thats gonna help atleast
A biblical quote that I can agree with: "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."
We're all as bad as each other, globally the economic system is, basically, fucked. The only difference between us and Greece is that (currently) we can afford to repay our loans.
+1 but if u think that these corrupted guyz controll the media then u understand thas it's not so difficult actually.
ON TOPIC
The thing that u dont understand my friends is that if greece was a REAL problem-threat for europe they whould have kicked us long time ago BUT right now u read in your media-newspapers that THE EUROGROUP is trying to help(funny)
greece but behind the scene actually they are trying to buy the country.Everyone knows that Aegean sea is full of mineral wealth and oil.
The best moment to fuck a country is when u have a weak goverment and thats the goverment of Papandreou who is working like an American Agent in europe,actually this guy never lived in greece he was born in usa and he lived to canada and sweden and from nowhere he came here as a prime minister.
About the germans,dutch and all the others who saw their taxes raised due to greece i say to them STOP paying them because ur goverments just lying to you they dont go to help greek ppl but for other interests.
I really wish for a bunkrupt and start from the beggining without the corrupted politics this time and without selling our country to foreign interests.I am from Athens, this city have been survived from bigger risks during the thousand years which actually exists, so i am optimistic.
and plz my german friends dont say thats it's old because in this life we say that something is old when there is nonone left in life who actually lived that era.And you know something?My grandftahter who fought the Nazis, he is still in life.
if somenone was to leave from eurozone beacuse of the debt, germans should be the first.You have erased your debts three times in the recent history my dear germans.
p.s 1) i hope best of luck for italy, learn from our mistakes(as greece) and try to avoid them.
p.s 2)Dont confuse Papandreou with the greek people we dont like him either.
how can u say someone thirdie?
thats funny very funny!tell me plz how you can call someone thirdie when in your dictionary you use greek words,in the mathematics and in programming en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_letters_used_in_mathematics,in your education about philosophy you give as example greek psilosophers,about theatrical issues the same etc etc
so i am wondering again how can you call someone thirdie when in many educational issues you consulting the greek history?
I really wish best of luck to all the countries with financial problems,and learn from our mistakes( as greece) and try to avoid them.
LoL, I hope you don't really believe that the eu pumps money in the economy of greece to actually buy the country. Haha, This actually made me LOL.
If greece goes bankrupt it will fuck up the economy in the whole of eu with Italy and Spain to follow after Greece. They invest in Greece so the economy in the region says stable and we don’t get to see another crisis.
Tbh, Papandreou is fucked. He has the choice between 1) listening to his people/voters and see the country go bankrupt after getting cut off EU or 2) Accepting the EU terms and cutting in the treasury of greece (and actually try to get greece over its crisis) but lose all of his eligibility and ending his political career
vato in this life noone helps anyone with no exchange.You see the agreement on the table ,but they dont tell what exactly this agreement includes(becuse these things always are signed under the table).THere are many things that me and you dont really know that actually happening right now.The media show what is PERMISSIBLE to show.
bankrupt= format to clean from the viruses(corrupted politicians)
I don't think you understand what a bankruptcy means, it means you lose everything. And in this case, you're being a selfish twat, you go down, we all go down.
I don't think you understand what a bankruptcy means, it means you lose everything. And in this case, you're being a selfish twat, you go down, we all go down.
because we are running from corrupted goverments for decades.And if you ask me why ?
if u think that these corrupted guyz controll the media then u understand thas it's not so difficult actually.
about disgrace yea you are right unfortunately
bankrupt= format to clean from the viruses(corrupted politicians) for me a person that's a solution right now.
i agree with you and aspec about this . but hows saying that these is not people's fault selfish? i seriously dont get the hate i ve seen in this forum towards greece sometimes . what greek people have to do with politicians mistakes and inability to regulate . When the government got the loans instead of using it to produce they were spent for corrupted deals + everyone started to import products just cause they were cheaper . So from my pov its not people's fault . We had suffered a lot of damage in the past and although we could send IMF away JUST like germany and America did with IRAQ by "proving" tha the debt is not people's fault , its eurozone's "help" that fucks it up .
I'm not hating. I just don't understand how the greek population think that they can handle this without the help of EU and still remain an eu-member. You guys are fucked either way, you just don't want to face it and hope everything would be better if you didn't accept money from the eu but that's far from the truth
1. We have no money,
2. Hey EU, can we join you?
3. *Take all the benefits*
4. Oh shit, we're going under, better go bankrupt so we don't have to deal with all the negative parts of being a EU member.
5. ???
6. Profit.
aspec you are a preinvite team and u need a player because one of u left so u make a post and asking a guy with skill aca-pre and someone comes and says hey guyz i am med+ ?you will put him as a preinvite team?no!so why the accepted greece?can you explain me why?
do you fucking know that bigger part of the ppl will starving in a couple of months if we say yes to the austerity measures?do u have any fucking idea how the people living right know?come here see and then judge.
about ur comment better go bankrupt so we don't have to deal with all the negative parts of being a EU member.
as i said jimmy and aspec i appreciate your opinions and they are somehow correct . Thing is as i ve already said you dont the situation around greece atm . Since IMF came here they are forcing these new taxes and laws along with Eurozone . So when politicians come up saying that these meters failed and the debt hasnt yet decreased and forcing new raised taxes what we should think of eu ? They are running greece atm and papandreou is their bitch believe it or not . As i said even if we send IMF away like Argentina did , because some debts can be erased AS other countries did its eurozone that fucks it up cause they control papandreou . Anyways i am off for now i would like to continue this discussion because you got some arguments unlike other people posting do . cu
So, Frances minister of Foreign affairs claims that the Eurozone can do without Greece. Interesting, a minister who's job is to project and understand French political power within Europe and the World.
A minister that doesn't deal with economics.
I'll let the markets talk instead, lets see, what was their reaction to this news. Oh look, another 20 billion evaporated today due to the news that Greece may be evicted. Yup, looks like the minister of foreign affairs knows what's up.
You're clinging to straws, a single politician believes it possible while just about everyone else claims the opposite.
the bigger part of the society is almost poor if we say yes to the austerity measures we will starving for over a decade!
and they said that with this measures we gonna reduse the debt ,in 2021, from 190% to 120% that was back on the 2009 (LOL!)
think what you would have done if you were in this position.
one of the best solutions, in my opinion, is to create european bonds. group all the debt of all the countries together into one big pile, and each country pays off their part, and an average interest rate would be used across the board. so this interest rate would be lower than the debt countries like greece and italy currently have, however it would be higher than the big 3, or more specifically germany, so they won't want to do it. it makes sense though, and china have said that they would buy the bonds :)))
or let greece go back to their old currency (can't remember what it's called) so they can devalue it massively and hopefully have a surge in exports.
Germany wont do it. How can you democratically justify Germany footing the bill for countries if they have no control over tax and spending in these other, less fiscally prudent countries. The only way you would be able to justify eurobonds is through fiscal union - germany setting all the tax and spending for all these countries. Once you do that, you move very close to a United States of Europe which I think alot of europe will reject.
Im no economic expert but for me the solution is just get the ECB to print whatever money is needed. If the markets know hands down the euro is there to stay and that ECB will back any problems, then you stand of chance of getting some growth and recovery back into international economics. The problem is, by printing money you risk rampant inflation but I think in such an invidious position, its much better to try and battle 1 enemy rather than multiple and an enemy you have a grasp of how to deal with. But of course, the germans are terrified of inflation and wont legally allow the ECB to be used in this way as its primary purpose was to just control inflation. There are even legal challenges to them buying italian and spanish bonds now.
AraG0rN on 2011-11-03 19:57:17
And that, considering the current situation in Greece, is basically just another way of saying that 'there will be complete and utter fucking chaos.'
German troops storm Greece. Putin's tanks crush Latvia. France humbles the British Army. Unlikely, yes, but as Angela Merkel says euro meltdown could endanger peace, a historian's imagination runs riot...
The date is October 29, 2018, and Britain faces its darkest hour. On the battlefields of Europe, our Armed Forces have been humiliated.
In makeshift prison camps on the continent, thousands of our young men and women sit forlornly, testament to the collapse of our ambitions.
From the killing grounds of Belgium to the scarred streets of Athens, a continent continues to bleed. And, in the east, the Russian bear inexorably tightens its grip, an old empire rising from the wreckage of the European dream.
Yesterday, after a run of military defeats unequalled in our history, the Prime Minister offered his resignation. There is talk of a National Government, but no one has any illusions of another Churchill waiting in the wings.
In suburban streets across Britain, old men and callow teenagers are digging defensive positions in the cold autumn air. But with equipment scarce and ammunition non-existent, the Home Guard would barely last a week.
And all the time, across the Channel, enemy forces make their final preparations for the inevitable invasion. Some talk of surrender; no one speaks of victory. Less than ten years ago, millions still believed in a peaceful, united Europe. How did it come to this?
When future historians look back on our humiliation, they will surely judge that the turning point was the last week in October 2011.
Largely forgotten today, the main event was yet another interminable European summit in Brussels — the 14th attempt to ‘save the euro’ in just 20 months.
Hoping to secure German support for a massive one trillion euro rescue package, Chancellor Angela Merkel gave her parliamentarians a chillingly prescient warning.
‘No one should believe that another half century of peace in Europe is a given — it’s not,’ she said.
‘So I say again: if the euro collapses, Europe collapses. That can’t happen.’
At the time, many observers scoffed that she was being absurdly melodramatic. But, seven years on, no one is laughing.
What Mrs Merkel had grasped — and what many European leaders refused to recognise — was that the Continent was threatened by a toxic combination of spiralling debt, economic recession, surging anarchism and a pervasive collapse of confidence in capitalism itself.
....
In the summer of 2012, massive anti-capitalist demonstrations in major Italian cities turned into outright rebellion. And when Berlusconi sent in the army to maintain order, the first bombs began exploding in the banks of Rome, Milan and Turin.
Anti-capitalism had caught the imagination of a generation. And the bomb alert at the Bank of England —when the entire City had to be evacuated after warnings from the so-called ‘Guy Fawkes Anti-Cuts Collective’ — was merely the first of many.
In July 2012, three people were killed by a bank bomb in Frankfurt. A month later, 15 people were killed in Dublin. And in September, in tragic events that will never be forgotten, 36 people were killed by explosions across the City of London.
By now demonstrations and riots were fixtures on the evening news. And as Germany and France struggled to keep the eurozone alive, there were the first signs of a disturbing new authoritarianism.
In Italy, where the Berlusconi government had declared a permanent state of emergency, some cities had degenerated into virtual civil war.
...
At another time, the terrible Spanish riots in the spring of 2014, when 63 people were killed in a shocking outbreak of arson and looting, would have dominated the headlines.
But most people’s attention was focused further east. No country had been hit harder by the financial crisis than little Latvia, which by 2014 had an unemployment rate of more than 35??per cent. And with almost one in three of its citizens being ethnic Russians, economic frustration soon turned into nationalist confrontation.
On August 12, 2015, after days of fighting on the streets of Riga, the Russian army rumbled across the border. The Russians had come to ‘restore order’, Vladimir Putin assured the world.
But his statement to the Russian people told a different story.
‘Europe’s crisis is Russia’s opportunity,’ Putin announced. ‘The days of humiliation are over; our empire will be restored.’
Once, the West would have come to Latvia’s aid. It was, after all, a member of both the European Union and of Nato — though the new American isolationism meant that Nato membership was effectively worthless.
But since French troops were already committed to Greece and Italy, Paris refused to intervene.
edited 2011-11-03 20:17:18
the Russian bear inexorably tightens its grip. Nope.
that guy is a fag, who can barely speak greek and has made some bullshits and now the greek nation suffers the consequences. To be honest I dont think greece is gonna escape the crisis ever, we are more vulnerable than ever right now as nothing is going well inside the borders of our country. I am gonna study abroad so I dont give a shit, its hopeless.
This is not the masses' fault. Actually it is cause they voted in favor of this governmet. But some1 else made the mistakes
bankrupt
ENOUGH SAID
01. Greek economy isn't very strong or productive
02. Greece needs money
03. Greece borrows money
04. Greece spends money
05. Greece starts repaying money
06. Greek economy is still weak
07. Greece struggles to keep up with payments
08. Payments changed - Greece only repays the interest of the original loan
09. Interest on government loans is very high
10. Greece struggles to keep up with payments again
11. Greece borrows money to be able to continue paying the interest
12. Meanwhile of course, the total sum borrowed increases
Repeat stages 11 and 12 a few times and that's basically where we are now.
The only reason Greece hasn't already exploded into a massive economic clusterfuck is because the EU is pumping money into it. This, in itself, seems ridiculous as the money is only paying off the interest of Greek borrowing; the full amount of the loan, roughly 1.5x the GDP of Greece, still exists and is still to be repaid.
edited 2011-11-03 21:27:41
edited 2011-11-03 21:46:12
We're all as bad as each other, globally the economic system is, basically, fucked. The only difference between us and Greece is that (currently) we can afford to repay our loans.
edited 2011-11-03 21:54:53
prove it
ON TOPIC
The thing that u dont understand my friends is that if greece was a REAL problem-threat for europe they whould have kicked us long time ago BUT right now u read in your media-newspapers that THE EUROGROUP is trying to help(funny)
greece but behind the scene actually they are trying to buy the country.Everyone knows that Aegean sea is full of mineral wealth and oil.
The best moment to fuck a country is when u have a weak goverment and thats the goverment of Papandreou who is working like an American Agent in europe,actually this guy never lived in greece he was born in usa and he lived to canada and sweden and from nowhere he came here as a prime minister.
About the germans,dutch and all the others who saw their taxes raised due to greece i say to them STOP paying them because ur goverments just lying to you they dont go to help greek ppl but for other interests.
I really wish for a bunkrupt and start from the beggining without the corrupted politics this time and without selling our country to foreign interests.I am from Athens, this city have been survived from bigger risks during the thousand years which actually exists, so i am optimistic.
And here something about the germans:
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/21/germany-greece-greek
-debt-crisis
and plz my german friends dont say thats it's old because in this life we say that something is old when there is nonone left in life who actually lived that era.And you know something?My grandftahter who fought the Nazis, he is still in life.
if somenone was to leave from eurozone beacuse of the debt, germans should be the first.You have erased your debts three times in the recent history my dear germans.
p.s 1) i hope best of luck for italy, learn from our mistakes(as greece) and try to avoid them.
p.s 2)Dont confuse Papandreou with the greek people we dont like him either.
how can u say someone thirdie?
thats funny very funny!tell me plz how you can call someone thirdie when in your dictionary you use greek words,in the mathematics and in programming en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_letters_used_in_mathematics,in your education about philosophy you give as example greek psilosophers,about theatrical issues the same etc etc
so i am wondering again how can you call someone thirdie when in many educational issues you consulting the greek history?
I really wish best of luck to all the countries with financial problems,and learn from our mistakes( as greece) and try to avoid them.
edited 2011-11-04 15:55:56
If greece goes bankrupt it will fuck up the economy in the whole of eu with Italy and Spain to follow after Greece. They invest in Greece so the economy in the region says stable and we don’t get to see another crisis.
Tbh, Papandreou is fucked. He has the choice between 1) listening to his people/voters and see the country go bankrupt after getting cut off EU or 2) Accepting the EU terms and cutting in the treasury of greece (and actually try to get greece over its crisis) but lose all of his eligibility and ending his political career
that's all I've got 2 say...
edited 2011-11-03 22:23:08
nc.....
bankrupt= format to clean from the viruses(corrupted politicians)
edited 2011-11-04 16:11:38
zone-can-do-without-greece/
i think you are wrong.
Gedin Mavanyabitch
because we are running from corrupted goverments for decades.And if you ask me why ?
if u think that these corrupted guyz controll the media then u understand thas it's not so difficult actually.
about disgrace yea you are right unfortunately
bankrupt= format to clean from the viruses(corrupted politicians) for me a person that's a solution right now.
edited 2011-11-04 17:05:16
1. We have no money,
2. Hey EU, can we join you?
3. *Take all the benefits*
4. Oh shit, we're going under, better go bankrupt so we don't have to deal with all the negative parts of being a EU member.
5. ???
6. Profit.
Remind me again who elected them.
do you fucking know that bigger part of the ppl will starving in a couple of months if we say yes to the austerity measures?do u have any fucking idea how the people living right know?come here see and then judge.
about ur comment better go bankrupt so we don't have to deal with all the negative parts of being a EU member.
here is your link
greece.greekreporter.com/2011/11/03/frances-europe-minister-euro-zone-can-do-without-greece/
edited 2011-11-04 17:30:00
edited 2011-11-04 17:40:57
here is your link
greece.greekreporter.com/2011/11/03/frances-europe-minister-euro-zone-can-do-without-greece/
Allow me to undermine your argument.
So, Frances minister of Foreign affairs claims that the Eurozone can do without Greece. Interesting, a minister who's job is to project and understand French political power within Europe and the World.
A minister that doesn't deal with economics.
I'll let the markets talk instead, lets see, what was their reaction to this news. Oh look, another 20 billion evaporated today due to the news that Greece may be evicted. Yup, looks like the minister of foreign affairs knows what's up.
You're clinging to straws, a single politician believes it possible while just about everyone else claims the opposite.
and they said that with this measures we gonna reduse the debt ,in 2021, from 190% to 120% that was back on the 2009 (LOL!)
think what you would have done if you were in this position.
just dont give those fuckers more money
edited 2011-11-04 18:45:26
or let greece go back to their old currency (can't remember what it's called) so they can devalue it massively and hopefully have a surge in exports.
in short, fuck the piigs, up with the bricks.
edited 2011-11-04 20:03:18
www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0dfcDlXyaw
www.youtube.com/watch?v=61XmlUcAze0&feature=related
edited 2011-11-23 14:10:15
edited 2011-11-23 14:32:07