Islamization
(
Note: I don't claim to be an expert on this issue and this is
NOT an attack on Arabic/Middle Eastern people but the ideology of Islam itself. So please don't bother with the 'you're being intolerant of other races' or 'you're being racist' crap.
The purpose of this thread is simply to
raise awareness.)
Do you value the internet? Do you value your favorite hobbies/pastimes? Do you value freedom of speech and expression? Do you value self-ownership and the right to free choice? Do you value being able to marry who you love and not have your marriage arranged for you? Do you value freedom from religion? Do you value equal rights for women, men, homosexuals etc. etc.? Do you value modern western culture and secular government?
Do you want to have these freedoms for the rest of your life? Do you want your children and grand children to have these freedoms?
Or do you want to lose a lot of, if not
all of, these freedoms? It's a
very real possibility.
How could Islam spell the end of western civilization as we know it? It's quite simple. In the Quran (Muslim Holy book) and the Hadith, it is explicitly stated that Muslims should look to spread their religion until it is the only religion left. Once Muslims get a foot-hold in a non-Muslim area, they seek to impose Shari'a (Islamic Law) which is NOT compatible with modern western values and society. It promotes and supports religious fundamentalism, master-slave morality, oppression, censorship, misogyny, polygamy, wife-beating, arranged marriage etc. etc.
Take a look:
Sam Harris: Islam Is Not a Religion of Peace
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfKLV6rmLxE
How Islam is Taking Over The World: Islamization Explained
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpM6QKaAgP0
'Islamization' of Paris a Warning to the West
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX7oezVO1Bk
Deporting Millions Of Muslims May Be Necessary
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfm1l9g8UAY
Censorship in Islam
www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Or-18q9dA
Bill Maher on Muslim Censorship in South Park
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt9SNmk07Ds
Wife beating in Islam
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWGA8i6scYY
Luckily, politicians seem like they're beginning to realize it's an issue. But if you feel that your town/country is becoming Islamized, don't give in to the Muslims' every demand. Don't sit idly by in fear of offending someone's faith and watch your country get taken over. You need to
speak out for what you believe is right. These people want to bring their Middle Age laws and rule to the west, destroying and oppressing all other types of society in the process.
Are you prepared to let this happen?
Discuss.
edited 2012-01-11 13:54:04
tek9isfullofretards on 2012-01-11 13:51:30
Taken directly from the OP:
"The purpose of this thread is simply toraise awareness."
im an atheist btw
This is a possibility, I'm not claiming I'm 100% right.
edited 2012-01-11 14:14:10
then says "It promotes and supports religious fundamentalism, master-slave morality, oppression, censorship, misogyny, polygamy, wife-beating, arranged marriage etc. etc."
>thinks people of arabic decent won't be offended
BETTER RAISE AWARENESS WE TAKIN OVA YO
lmao
Islam isnt the problem, its religion.
But Islam is more malign than Christianity. In its scriptures and doctrines. And especially Sharia. They're both at a different stage in their practice, too. They aren't equivalent and we shouldn't pretend they are.
@Patrick: People of arabic descent can be offended if they want. I wanted to make sure to cover my back and make it clear that I was attacking an ideology, not their race (ie. I wasn't being racist).
Yes, Islam is obviously a massive part of their culture and they're likely to be offended, but that's just too bad.
edited 2012-01-11 14:44:09
p.s chances are you even judged my post w/o even reading it cuz of my turkish flag , ofc i might be mistaken but meh :/
edited 2012-01-11 14:49:28
I hate the ideology of Islam, you're right. Nothing wrong with hating an idea and voicing your hate for it. It's called freedom of thought and expression.
I don't hate the people, I think they're misguided.
I don't hate people. End of.
And no, I didn't judge by your flag, I recognized your name and knew you weren't Turkish.
edited 2012-01-11 14:55:35
But ofc that just my 2 cents , maybe we should just agree to disagree , because that kind of ideology in my opinion is clear cut racism.
I'm going to say again that I hate the ideology of Islam, the laws they abide by and not the races of people who adhere to it.
I don't know what else you want me to say.
I obviously dislike certain people who use Islam (and religion generally) as a tool for power, but that's not equivalent to racism just because the majority of people who do so are from the Middle East, or because the religion originated there. As I said, the person could be black, Arab or white. Doesn't matter.
Not racism.
edited 2012-01-11 15:42:25
I should just rename to ImageKing.
do you actually think that we hate america !! and we wanna kill everyone who is not muslim and we hate every non-muslim person
if you think this is true then you definitely need help
On the other hand, I do know what's explicity stated in the Quran about non-believers. I do know what sharia law says about apostates (all Islamic states abide by Sharia).
I also know that the Quran says Muslims are ALLOWED to lie to non-Muslims if it benefits Islam:
Qur'an 4:142 "Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah. He shall retaliate by deceiving them."
If you don't believe that your holy book is the verbatim word of the creator of the universe (as it is supposed to be and it's supposed to be what all true Muslims believe), then why do you consider yourself a Muslim?
inb4 apologetic acrobatics
and believe me no muslim in saudi arabia wants to kill any non-muslim
also i know that islam is pretty fucked up on some things but it's still way better than what people are saying about it
edited 2012-01-11 15:21:46
Are you really trying to defend and indefensible position?
www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/011-taqiyya.htm
And 'NO Muslim in Saudi Arabia wants to kill any non-muslim'.
Hahaha, you're having a laugh. If people there abide by the Quran, quite a few of them most certainly should (I'm not saying all of them, remember).
And you admit that Islam is pretty fucked up on some things. Good.
edited 2012-01-11 15:30:19
and the "taqiyya" is only in the shi'a islam which is completely fucked up and they're considered non-muslims am talking about "Sunnah"
btw am an atheist not a muslim
Also, www.answering-islam.org/Index/T/taqiyya.html#sunni
islamqa.com/en/ref/59879
States that Sunni Muslims can abide by the Taqiyya's principles and 'pretend' to be friends with non believers (lying) if you have to, and for the purpose of converting them to Islam.
Am I the only one who thinks this is fucked up? They're not even allowed by scripture to associate with non-Muslims.
the word " Awliyaa' " has a lot of meanings such as the ones said in the link you just posted but in the verse it meant worshipers or followers
i dont know where do you get this idea that muslims are not allowed to associate with non-muslims
did you know that here in saudi arabia in the american embassy they have their own supermarket where they sell ham and alcohol and they have their own cinema and nightclubs and stuff? i guess you didn't because they dont show you these things in the news :)
the koran said you cant kill people its a rule
im just a normal muslim doing all things go to school have life chicks
so ye im good bad eng
Im muslim and i can safley say ive not been in a situation where any of these questions have ever affected me, Arranged marrige isnt something assosiated with all muslims, its a cultral thing just so u know.
And here are my views on what you've compaigned as Islamization and what it means to be muslim
- I love the internet and no one has ever told me to stop using it
- I've always been encouraged in every hobby ive done by family and friends
- Dont know where this comes from if anything muslims are known for speaking out
- Arranged marrige like i said doesnt apply for every muslim its a sterotype, people watch East is East and think they know islam
- Im not sure why people think muslims mistreat there women not seen it ever in my life apart from TV on Eastenders
- As for gay people personally i dont like them because i feel akward around them its got nothing to do with my religion infact i have a muslim friend whos Bisexual its just wierd being around him because he tells us if a guys cute so fuck that shit.
edited 2012-01-11 16:06:49
u have normal muslims, European muslim( if u get the point^^) , strong muslims and so on where u get to 'extremists'.
the facts above are all true, but it's about extremism, as tepzye said : 'the koran said you cant kill people its a rule'
I don't see extremists as muslims, they are abusing the religion to releave their anger and that gives the media the opportunity to manipulate the core of the islam.
:3
( not saying you do btw :] )
I'm not religious and I have never had any interest in religion. However I think that the difference between this world and one without religion is minimal to say the least. People will always find a reason/excuse for their actions, and it is rarely justified.
edited 2012-01-11 16:44:14
I think people need to learn to respect all religions, something which is difficult right now because a lot of people have racist grandparents because they know no different.
But I'm not going to lie and say I wouldn't start to worry if the number of Muslims got to like 30-40%, then they started to protest to implement Sharia. It's happened before, even in England.
And yeah, Islam is bad as a whole. Not only is it unnecessary, it perpetuates a ridiculous amount of conflict, faith-based hatred, oppression etc.
Not only hatred from Muslims, but from those who hate Islamic ideology (me included).
And if you don't care if Sharia is implemented, fine. Be prepared to submit to Islam (that's one of the things you have to do to get into 'Heaven' and not burn for eternity in 'Hell', be a slave to Allah) and its 7th century rules and laws and pretend you believe in a God you don't so you're not discriminated against/murdered.
But I won't.
edited 2012-01-11 18:17:34
edited 2012-01-11 18:20:04
I said I don't care if sharia is implemented for Muslims. I'm not a Muslim. If the Muslims want their own little community and want to use sharia law then so be it. Sharia is more than the death penatly - sharia rulings are there to guide Muslims on what is right - I think that's fair enough. Sharia ruling is in the UK and is used with some business and family disputes with Muslims.
I've no problem with people having a personal God. It's when they try to use it to control others and encroach on secular society that I have a problem. And that's exactly what Islam is doing/wants to do.
Sharia law is a threat to modern secular society. The two aren't compatible.
And I never claimed not to be 'as bad' as the BNP. I said I didn't believe in deporting all Muslims from the UK. Can you read mate?
And yeah, I believe their entire religion is wrong, just like I believe most religions are wrong.
What's your point?
edited 2012-01-11 18:30:02
Just because I'm talking solely about Islam, doesn't mean I don't dislike other religions. I'm talking more about Islam because it's more of a threat than other religions. Damn, you people are slow.
Morality doesn't come from religious scripture. Have a book full of morals then and keep the 'God' crap out of it. Religion isn't necessary.
Bye.
I didn't say it did either. I would prefer if there were a book of morals. Or even better, they were simply taught them as a child by their parents. But some people just want to believe in something. Some would call them weak minded, but God is there for them at all times simply because he's figure of their imagination. Religion isn't necessary - but if someone wants to follow a religion then let them. It isn't hurting you, nor them, they do have a choice (sometimes, if it's a kid then they know no different anyways so it isn't hurting them as such. In an islamic state, well, unlucky I suppose)
edited 2012-01-11 18:25:12
Maybe you should go live in a Sharia state and see what life's like there.
Enjoy not being able to drink alcohol, not being able to smoke weed or marijuana, not being able to eat what you want, having censorship everywhere, having restricted/censored internet, being forced to worship 5 times a day (even if you don't believe), being killed or imprisoned if you say anything against religion, being discriminated against if you're a woman, homosexuals not having equal rights, etc. Basically being bullied every single day of your life in the name of a God for which there's no evidence.
And the law isn't dynamic because it's based on the Quran. So you can NEVER change it and society can NEVER progress.
Damn, at its roots it's not even that complex an issue and yet people still can't grasp it. Fucking idiots.
Bye.
edited 2012-01-11 18:49:16
edited 2012-01-11 18:56:08
edited 2012-01-11 19:58:09
You have probably never been to an Islamic country for more than 10days if ever , yet you're talking about it like as if you've been a slave in one for the past 10 years
edited 2012-01-11 19:40:14
lololol ur half irish half turkish deal with it double 3rdie
I understand that Islam as a fast growing religion concerns you. It is true that Islam is not only a religion but an entire way of living but the fact is, you make it sound like muslims are some kind of homogenous group that are all trying to brainwash non-believers and are trying to islamise the west. You can not be further from the truth. Muslims are very different from one and another and almost all western muslims are just normal people like you and me that just want to make a living and have their own private beliefs and share the same values (sometimes from another perspective)
Besides, civilisation is changing. Western values change all the time. Whether it being because of internet/technology/fashion/movies/science, you name it. You remind me of old people that always live in the past. Yes the multicultural society is a fact. No it is nothing to be afraid of.
Stop trying scare people with your "watch out for Islam" crap, stop preaching hate towards Islam :D. Start preaching love.
EDIT:
After seeing some of your comments, I have realised that you only believe in your truth and are always trying to convice others of why you are right and they are wrong. You will probably reply to my post with a list of arguments why people SHOULD be concerned etc etc but m8, you should just chill out and accept that other people (including muslims) don't think that way. there is no such thing as "the truth", the world isn't black or white, try to understand why other people think the way they do without trying to think thats wrong. PEACEEEEE :D
edited 2012-01-11 19:00:27
Lets start from the beginning, lets produce a theory of the world right here, right fucking now because some of you are so up your own asses you should be hung from a tree. Anybody who says religion is a problem, needs to rethink about religion. I'm going to say that I'm not religious, and never have been. Lets take this scientifically, and only use facts. And I'm going to prove to you that religion is not a bad thing.
Life is about survival. Every species is adapted to the environment to survive, whether it be through claws, camouflage, scales, poison etc. We as humans have none of this, we have no claws, no scales, no armour, we aren't massive, but we do have a BRAIN. This brain allows us to use the power of communication and knowledge, which is why we live in groups. We use safety in numbers, as a way of survival. Man has always been trying to come up with imaginative ways to LIVE IN THAT GROUP. How can we set this up to be the best? How can we be the most productive?
1) RELIGION It always been with "big chief king". However as groups evolved it always ended up being religious. Think of the old religions such as The Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans, parts of Asia, the Mayans, the Incas, most grew independently. But the FIRST THING THAT BROUGHT US TOGETHER, WAS RELIGION. Thats how we survived, and frankly, just look at the Egyptians, and the Roman Empire.
2) RACE We then began to explore, and expand. Maps were made, knowledge was acquired, and people began to learn about people far away. It just so happened that the western world became industrialized first, Europeans or Caucausian white people had gunpowder, and the poor black people / indians had nothing. Think back to America, and how the Spanish wiped out Civilizations. The two groups were the foreigners, and the natives. That was how you are judged.
I'm sure if the black people, or Indians were more industrialized and developed, they would have exploited us too. Its the WEALTH that was introduced capitalism here. To gain wealth, you didn't have to be a priest or the high grand master, you just had to make money through trade. This is the birth of WEALTH. WEALTH is why we advance to this day.
3) Nationality
Countries formed around the same time as the racial groupings formed. Think back to the 100 years war vs England and France, Spain, Holland etc. These are the monarchies, many to which we have today. Many consider them outdated and unnecessary in the time of globalization where national borders are literally broken down by trade and trans-national corporations. However they do provide a safeguard for politics and preventing silly ideologies.
4) Political Beliefs / Ideologies
I'm sure many of you know this. For the last 100 years there has been a constant battle to decide where we should be on this scale. We can now seperate people into groups, but which group is the best? Which one wins everytime? This includes groups like "The West" (Europe and America)
WW2 was so important, as it set off the chain events that literally made this battle between left and right. After Hitler and the Nazis were defeated the World became pretty sure that they didn't want a far-right movement. However WW2, from 1944 onwards wasn't about who won, but about who got what afterwards. Russia was becoming mega communist. Stalin ACTUALLY wanted to let WW2 to go on for as long as possible, he wanted the Allies and the Nazis to tire before he swept across Europe in a devastating attack. He even signed a deal with Hitler, after the war had started just to let this happen. But good old Hitler attacked Russia anyway. Meaning Stalin and the Reds had to slug it out like the rest of us.
It was a race to Berlin. Allies in the West, and Reds in the East. Insert the whole Berlin wall story here.
America wants democracy, its pretty close to the middle at the time, and it wants to world to be like that. For us thats a good thing. However looking at Asia, you have Communist China, North Korea, and Vietnam becoming communist. They ended the far-right battle, but the far-left one had only begun.
They invested HEAVILY into South Korea and Japan, and turned them into capitalists. Wealth and its importance is so important nowadays. Just look at South Korea and Japan, two of the best countries in the world to live in, and they are all fucking cute and kpop brlaghah.
But yes, they invaded Vietnam, tried to kill communism in North Korea by turning the South against them (Korean War). China is too big to even tackle, they left them alone. You could talk about Tibet here though. Eventually Russia stops being communist, however it fails to transfer properly, because of a poor switchover. All government assests overnight worth billions were left un-guarded and the birth of the oligarchs is formed. The IMF is shitting its pants realising that they thought opening the bird cage would let the birds in, when in reality all the money in Russia poured out. Hence ChelseaFC.
Cut a long story short, political beliefs and systems have been fighting and evolving to the best place, so it ENSURES survival. Remember back to why we started in the first place.
1)RELIGION -> TRIBES
2)RACE -> RACES
3)COUNTIRES -> COUNTRIES
4)POLITICAL IDEAS -> CONTINENTS
We are steadily trying to survive, to stop war. This is the only way you can justify war.
But have we not forgot something?
Religion hasn't been sitting still, we never only had the Greek Gods. Religion evolved too, around 2000 years the whole of the Middle East became fucked up with Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc. Remember how numbers, 2,3,4 run on wealth? Progress is wealth. However there is no religion that worships wealth, (except the Jews badum tss), it has a value of its own. There are 3 stages of religion.
A) The old relgions. Greeks, Romans, Mayans etc. Buddhism.
B) Catholics, Christians, Islam.
C) ?
C is what we are evolving to. We need C, we become too tied up in wealth and forget there is a meaning to life. We need to remember that structure, 1,2,3,4. The best example I can give you is the terrible massacre in Norway. Anders Breivik is still looking at number 1/2, and isn't looking to the future. We need to remember how far we came, and after the massacre. Every single church in Norway was full. It was widely reported on the news, that the country came together, but they came together AROUND RELIGION AND PRAYING. How many of you have prayed when in times of need, how many civilizations have ended up becoming religious? Its innate, and its part of us. Once you realize this, you can always justify why we need religion. Don't forget this is Norway, its one of the most developed countries in the world, just look up the HDI scale. They are educated people, who live in a beautiful country, where all their energy is produced by hydroelectricity. They aren't chicken eating black people. Sure, you could say Islam is problematic because its in A and B (look up), however so was Christianity, and look how it became for the Norweigans.
Give it time, give it love, and make it survive. And we will continue to progress with science, and education, while maintaining and sense of 'oneness' which each other because its innately good.
Btw none of that was opinionated. Its just truth.
/thread
edited 2012-01-11 18:59:03
edited 2012-01-12 00:48:24
I mean, who needs a priest or even the church as an organisation (i don't know the right word in english sorry) to believe in god?
but i don't really like the curch as an organization as well ;)
edited 2012-01-11 20:10:46
Sounds like you have got a case of Americanisation.
It's called Godwin's law bro.